"Are Your Sufferings Welcome?" "Not Them and Not Their Reward."
I came across this Gemara in one of R' Rosensweig's posts
The Gemara Brachos 5b
רבי חייא בר אבא חלש, על לגביה רבי יוחנן. אמר ליה: חביבין עליך יסורין? אמר ליה: לא הן ולא שכרן.
R. Chiya b. Abba fell ill and R. Yohanan went in to visit him. He said to him: Are your sufferings welcome to you?
He replied: Neither they nor their reward.
אמר ליה: הב לי ידך! יהב ליה ידיה ואוקמיה.
He said to him: Give me your hand. He gave him his hand and he raised him.
רבי יוחנן חלש, על לגביה רבי חנינא. אמר ליה: חביבין עליך יסורין? אמר ליה: לא הן ולא שכרן. אמר ליה: הב לי ידך! יהב ליה ידיה ואוקמיה.
R. Yohanan fell ill and R. Hanina went in to visit him.
He said to him: Are your sufferings welcome to you?
He replied: Neither they nor their reward.
He said to him: Give me your hand. He gave him his hand and he raised him.
אמאי? לוקים רבי יוחנן לנפשיה!
Why did Rabbi Yoḥanan wait for Rabbi Ḥanina to restore him to health? If he was able to heal his student, let Rabbi Yoḥanan stand himself up.
- אמרי: אין חבוש מתיר עצמו מבית האסורים.
they say: A prisoner cannot generally free himself from prison
Two observations
about this before I continue with the Gemara.
1) About twenty years ago, I asked my Rav after I had my second 2nd trimester loss, how a person is supposed to cope with yisurim (painful life challenges). He said something that disgusted me at the time but which gave me decades of food for thought. He said that no tzadik enjoys yisurim. But ultimately they can come to appreciate the wisdom or growth that it led to. At the time, I was in so much pain, I turned away from that answer.
I did have to grow a lot through my experiences, though. (Sometimes I compared myself to a camel whose straw had broken the camel’s back. There I was, in the mud, lying there, with a broken back. So I broke. But then life kept going. So I had to make some decisions about what to do next lying in the mud with a broken back underneath too much straw.)
In the decades afterwards, there were many times I had painful things happen, and I only knew what to do or how to handle them because my previous painful experiences. And I thought, “Hmmph. Guess Rebbi was right, after all.”
Notwithstanding that, I appreciate the exchange in this Gemara where the Rabbis are both honest with each other: “I don’t welcome the suffering and I don’t welcome its reward”—even if the reward is greater knowledge, maturity, perspective, and the ability to handle Difficult Things in the future.
2) It’s an interesting point that even when you can help others, you cannot necessarily help yourself. You might need someone else to help you.
Gemara continued
- רבי אלעזר חלש, על לגביה רבי יוחנן... חזייה דהוה קא בכי רבי אלעזר. אמר ליה: אמאי קא בכית?
R. Elazar fell ill and R. Yohanan went in to visit him... Thereupon he noticed that R. Eleazar was weeping, and he said to him: Why do you weep?
אי משום תורה דלא אפשת - שנינו: אחד המרבה ואחד הממעיט ובלבד שיכוין לבו לשמים! ואי משום מזוני - לא כל אדם זוכה לשתי שלחנות! ואי משום בני - דין גרמא דעשיראה ביר.
- Is it because you did not study enough Torah?
Surely we learnt: The one who brings much and the one who brings little1 have the same merit, provided that the heart is directed to heaven.
- Is it perhaps lack of sustenance?
Not everybody has the privilege to enjoy two tables.
- Is it perhaps because of [the lack of] children?
This is the bone of my tenth son!
Observations
R’ Yochanan is trying to comfort R’ Elazar. He suggests 3 things that may be depressing R’ Elazar: 1) He didn’t learn enough. 2) He was poor. 3) He didn’t have children.
I find the 2nd and 3rd to be things that normally preoccupy people, but I’m surprised that a person would be concerned about wealth during a deathly illness. In that case, I’d expect the first one would be more concerning: did I spend my time wisely and growing as much as I could?
His answers are also fascinating and somewhat unexpected.
1) It’s quality/motivation, not quantity.2
2) Don’t feel bad about not having enough food; not everyone gets lucky enough to have “two tables.” (In America, many houses have a dine-in kitchen and a living room. Many apartments do not.) But are tables a reflection of how much food you have? And would R’ Elazar be crying about not having two tables? 3
3) If you’re crying about not having children, I lost 10 children and here is the bone of my youngest. (I guess it’s always some comfort and perspective to be around people who have suffered worse.)
It turns out none of those guesses were why R’ Elazar was crying.4
Gemara continued
אמר ליה: להאי שופרא דבלי בעפרא קא בכינא.
אמר ליה: על דא ודאי קא בכית, ובכו תרוייהו.
He said to him: I am weeping on account of this beauty that is going to rot in the earth.
He said to him: On that account you surely have a reason to weep.
And they both wept.
Observation
I’m surprised by this. It seems R’ Elazar is just sad that life is temporal and it’s going to be over.
R’ Yochanan agrees with him that this is tragic. And they cried together.
Gemara continued
אדהכי והכי, אמר ליה: חביבין עליך יסורין? אמר ליה: לא הן ולא שכרן. אמר ליה: הב לי ידך, יהב ליה ידיה ואוקמיה.
Meanwhile, he said to him: Are your sufferings welcome to you?
He replied: Neither they nor their reward.
He said to him: Give me your hand, and he gave him his hand and he raised him.
Observations
This has a very cyclical feel to it. After suggesting the possibility of so many “normal” concerns a human might be sad about, and crying together about the poignant tragic temporality and fragility of existence, R’ Yochanan asks him the same question the gemara has been asking all of these wise men: Do you welcome the suffering?
The answer: No. Despite any knowledge or perspective or benefit I gain.
And in the end, he holds out his hand to help him up, and he helps him up.
Because we have no control over the length or fragility of life. We have no control over certain suffering that befalls us. We can take comfort in good companionship, and we can extend a hand to help, and we can accept a helping hand when it is offered.
Reference to animal vs flour offerings both being called “a pleasant aroma”
קרבנות שנויה בשלהי מנחות (דף קי.) נאמר בעולת בהמה ריח ניחוח ובמנחה ריח ניחוח ללמדך שאחד המרבה וכו':
That definitely needs to be studied separately. You wouldn’t say that about violin practice, for example.
Looking at commentaries, some say the comfort is that wealth is luck and not merit based, so don’t feel bad about your poverty.
Steinsaltz says that there are 2 tables: wealth and Torah. You got one (the more important one), so don’t feel bad about the lack of the less important one.
So what is the point of R’ Yochanan guessing? Is this a good thing to do when visiting a depressed, sick friend? I’m open to thoughts.